Omit Results

Discussion related to "Everything" 1.5 Alpha.
void
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Omit Results

Post by void » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:18 am

Everything 1.5 adds the option to omit results.





To hide omitted results:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, check Omit Results.


To show omitted results:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, uncheck Omit Results.


To omit a result:
  • Ensure Omit Results is enabled from the Index menu.
  • Right click a result and click Omit.


To clear result omissions:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, click Clear result omissions.


To always enable Omit Results for new windows:
  • In Everything, type in the following search and press ENTER:
    /home_omit_results=1
  • If successful, home_omit_results=1 is shown in the status bar for a few seconds.
  • Type in the following search and press ENTER:
    /omit_results=1
  • If successful, omit_results=1 is shown in the status bar for a few seconds.
To restore the defaults and remember the last Omit Results setting:
  • In Everything, type in the following search and press ENTER:
    /home_omit_results=0
  • If successful, home_omit_results=0 is shown in the status bar for a few seconds.
home_omit_results
omit_results



OMIT RESULTS is shown in the status bar when a result is potentially omitted.
Double click OMIT RESULTS to show all files.
Alt + Double click OMIT RESULTS to organize your result omissions.

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:44 am

Everything 1.5.0.1306 renames "Temporary excludes" to "Omit Results".

Omit results will function identically to Temporary excludes.

To import your temporary excludes to your result omission list:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, check Omit Results.
  • from the Index menu, click Organize Result Omissions.
  • Click Import....
  • Type in the following filename and press ENTER:
    %APPDATA%\Everything
  • Select Temporary Excludes.csv and click Open.
  • Click OK.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:21 am

What about the original idea of "Omit Results"?
After searching you get a list of files. You can't select all files (Ctrl+A) and do an action (copy/move/rename...) because there are unwanted files in this list. You select the unwanted files, and omit them by RightClickMenu or a hotkey, to get the desired list of files.
(No dialog-box pops up when omitting, and without having to return the omitted results in the next search.)
Then you can select all files (Ctrl+A) and do your action.

Example:
In SearchBox you type in:
"C:\Windows\Cursors\"
You want to omit the blue/red items.

Will it be implemented?

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:12 am

Thank you for your feedback Stamimail,

With the current Everything Omit Results you can:
  • Enable Omit Results from the Index menu.
  • Search for: "C:\Windows\Cursors\"
  • Select the red and blue files.
  • Right click a selected file and click Omit.
  • Select All Results (Ctrl + A)
  • Perform your action on all the results (minus the omitted results)
  • Clear your result omissions from Index -> Clear result omissions.
Is this what you want?


Are you looking for an option to clear your result omission list on a new search?

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Fri Apr 08, 2022 11:32 pm

Sorry for the misunderstanding Stamimail,

I have put on my TODO list to add a temporarily exclude (or maybe temporarily omit?) option.
Temporarily excludes would only last until a refresh or new search.
"Omit Results mode" (or temporarily exclude mode?) would pause the index and allow you temporarily exclude results.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Sat Apr 09, 2022 5:48 pm

Confusion can happen because of the changes in the last updates.
Until recently we used two different expressions to diagnose 2 legitimate features:
1. Enable Temporary Excludes
2. Omit Results

So what terminology to use for each one?
You will decide according to how it sounds better to you in English.

---
The way it works now I will call it
Exclude temprealy from index
or
Move from Index to a Temporarily index.

This may be a legitimate task, but it is not what I called Omit Results.
In Omit Results the index stays the same. When the first item is omitted, it's just stop the real-time updating of the result list (Omit Results mode), letting the user messing with the current result list and filtering more and more files, till the next new search. Typing in a new search (from start) is exiting the Omit Results mode, back to normal.

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:13 pm

I've just started playing with omit and I think your reply about creating a temporary omit answers a question I was going to ask.

Presumably temporary omit would not go on the omit list and omit wouldn't have to be enabled for the temp omit to work?
At the moment, as far as I can see, omit has to be enabled for it to pop up in the context menu.

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Sat Apr 09, 2022 8:11 pm

This is getting quite confusing ...

There is now 'Omit Results' which is just a rebranded 'Temporary Excludes'. They function exactly the same.

And there is a suggested and not yet implemented idea to "freeze" the index so you don't have to shoot at moving targets. Take a snapshot of the current index, if you like. And to call that 'Omit results' too ( :shock: )

And the idea is that "Temporary Excludes' (for clarity I use the old name) is able to exclude items from the normal ("live") resultlist as well as from the "frozen" snapshot.

Temporary excludes are parked "out of sight". When the 'Temporary excludes" setting is disabled again, these files/folders are merged with the either "live" or " frozen" index.



Is that anywhere close?

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Sat Apr 09, 2022 9:02 pm

For the sake of the order, from my point of view:
1. My idea/suggestion about "Omit Results" was introduced in 26/06/2015.
2. In Everything 1.5 Alpha (13/03/2021), "Temporary Excludes" feature was introduced. It was a different feature that was implemented. It was not my idea/suggestion that i called "Omit Results".
Omit Results - omitting results from the current search / from the current result list.
Temporary Excludes - exclude items from index/results temporarily, for a period of time, for all searches.
3. On 08/04/2022 THIS topic took the "Temporary Excludes" feature and renamed it to "Omit Results", what making a confusion.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Sat Apr 09, 2022 10:02 pm

harryray2 wrote:
Sat Apr 09, 2022 7:13 pm
I've just started playing with omit and I think your reply about creating a temporary omit answers a question I was going to ask.

Presumably temporary omit would not go on the omit list and omit wouldn't have to be enabled for the temp omit to work?
At the moment, as far as I can see, omit has to be enabled for it to pop up in the context menu.
1. I did not think of the possibility that if I made a mistake in omitting, then there would be a possibility to correct the mistake. Theoretically, both "Omit Results" and "Temporary Excludes" can have their own lists.
2. Yes. You won't need to do something like "enable Omit Results" for this to work. It should work on a regular basis.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:33 am

Actually, "Omit Results" doesn't have to be implemented with
stop the real-time updating of the result list (Omit Results mode)
It can continue with the real-time updating the index and results, and make its magic in background, or in GUI by popping-up a Secondary SearchBar.
I'll explain later...

horst.epp
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Re: Omit Results

Post by horst.epp » Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:44 am

As NotNull already said "this is getting quite confusing".
For me the whole topic is out of control because to many poeple
with conflicting ideas try to push the Author into their direction.
I don't think that many users will have a benefit from whatever the final result will be.

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Sat Apr 16, 2022 3:25 pm

I've been playing with omit more, and in general I quite like it.

As I mentioned above, I would like to see a 'temporary omit' which only relates to the current session and could be accessed by the context menu, without having to enable omit.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:11 pm

Stamimail wrote:
Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:33 am
I'll explain later...
See here

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:21 am

As you can see, the difference between "Temporary Excludes" and "Omit Results" ideas is that
"Omit Results" is intended for only the current search. After omitting, I still will be able to press Ctrl+N to open a New Search Window, and for searching the same search, I'll get the full results without omission. "Omit Results" doesn't exclude from the index.
In contrast, "Temporary Excludes" does excluded from the index, so the first Everything window and the second will show the same results.
"Temporary Excludes" is intended for omission/exclusion for a longer period.

"Omit Results"
Image

"Temporary Excludes"
Image

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Tue Apr 19, 2022 8:07 pm

Thank you for the explanation. I think I now understand what you were saying. Thanks!

burgundy
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Re: Omit Results - context menu option to exclude entries in the same folder

Post by burgundy » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:55 am

I hope not to confuse the main discussion here on how "Omit" works. My idea is separate from the main comments here.

I would like to suggest a context menu option to exclude all entries in the same folder as the selected item in results.

If there is an elegant way to exclude all items in some of the parent folders in the path of the selected item, then so much the better! Although I am not sure how to make the user interface for that intuitive.

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:28 pm

Thanks for the suggestions.


I would like to suggest a context menu option to exclude all entries in the same folder as the selected item in results.
Currently, to omit all files/folders from the same folder:
  • In Everything 1.5, from the Index menu, check Omit Results.
  • Right click a selected file/folder.
  • Under the Parent Folder submenu, click Omit.

To quickly remove recently omitted files/folders:
  • In Everything 1.5, from the Index menu, under the Remove Recently Added Result Omissions submenu, click Remove All Recently Added Result Omissions.

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:16 am

Everything 1.5.0.1310a improves Omit results.

Added a Temporarily Omit option when Omit Results is enabled.
Temporarily Omit will hide results until a new search is performed.

To temporarily omit a result:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, check Enable Omit Results.
  • Right click a result and click Temporarily Omit.


To temporarily omit all files in the same folder:
  • In Everything, from the Index menu, check Enable Omit Results.
  • Right click a result and under Parent Folder click Temporarily Omit.


To bind a keyboard shortcut to Temporarily Omit:
  • In Everything, from the Tools menu, click Options.
  • Click the Keyboard tab on the left.
  • To the right of Show commands containing, type in:
    omit
  • Select File | Temporarily Omit.
  • Click Add....
  • Press a new keyboard shortcut (eg: Backspace) and click OK.
  • Click OK.
Omit Results does not need to be enabled when using a Temporarily Omit keyboard shortcut.



You can also re-show temporarily omitted results by double clicking on TEMP OMIT in the status bar.



Added an omit_results_persist ini setting.
When disabled, omitted results will only last for the rest of the current session. (makes all omitted results temporary)
When you restart Everything, omitted results will be cleared.

To disable persistent omitted results:
  • In Everything, type in the following search and press ENTER:
    /omit_results_persist=0
  • If successful, omit_results_persist=0 is shown in the status bar for a few seconds.
When disabled, you can double click OMIT RESULTS in the status bar to quickly clear all your omitted results.


Please let me know what settings you like to use as your defaults.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:08 pm

Tested.
What you called "Temporarily Omit" that was the feature I was looking for.
In the test, a path like "C:\Wallpapers\Cars" was searched in Everything. I changed the view to Medium Thumbnails (Ctrl+Shift+3). I could select all the yellow cars, and omit.
Amazing. :D

There is a lot to talk about. I'll talk a little.
I think I can see a conflict between "Omit" and "Temporarily Omit" features.
I suggest to remove "Temporarily Omit", and instead, to expand the options of /omit_results_persist. omit results will be persist (one of the following):
  • forever, even after restarting Everything. Until the user press "Clear Result Omissions".
  • for the rest of the current session. When you restart Everything, omitted results will be cleared.
  • for the current search window only. Each search window has its own Result Omissions list. <-- This setting I would like to use as my default.

ToFix:
1.
Temporarily Omit will hide results until a new search is performed.
I can't add and update the search. New search = from scratch. So I think it is better to keep the omission (the current window omission) until the user clears it on his own.
2. Omit Extension - in a case of a folder selected, this command will remove the appearances of all folders from results.
3. Omission of folders - 2 commands needs here. It should be clear to the user if he is only omitting the appearance of the folder without its descendants, or omitting the folder with its descendants.
4. Undo Ctrl+Z / Redo Ctrl+Y
Last edited by Stamimail on Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Sun Apr 24, 2022 7:38 pm

I haven't really had time to try this in depth yet, so I'm not sure if I'm missing something here.

First I have to say that temp omit is incredibly useful....

If I want to temporarily omit a file or folder, I have to enable omit results. Doesn't this then also omit the entries in omit results.
What I would like to do is temp omit a particular file or folder without all the other omits that are on my list coming in to play.

If I want to to temp omit a folder, without using parent, will it omit all the results in that folder or just stop the folder showing on the results list.

Reading further I notice that with the keyboard shortcut omit doesn't need to be enabled. I assume that this will do what I want and just omit the result that I've chosen?

If that's correct, would it be possible to temp omit with the context menu and not have to enable omit first?

Does the omit results persist refer to the main omit list, and it's just the results that are cleared and doesn't clear the main omit list?

I hope this makes some sort of sense because, quite honestly, I'm beginning to confuse myself :shock:

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:50 am

I can't find a way, using the context menu, of temp omitting a result without all the exclusions on the list being used.

The only thing I can think of is to uncheck all the entries on the omit list.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:41 am

harryray2 wrote:
Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:50 am
I can't find a way, using the context menu, of temp omitting a result without all the exclusions on the list being used.

The only thing I can think of is to uncheck all the entries on the omit list.
A solution can be using Everything instances

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:46 am

Thanks for the feedback,
I think I can see a conflict between "Omit" and "Temporarily Omit" features.
I'll look into ways to separate or merge these.

I will consider an omit folders (keep files only) option.

Thank you for the suggestions.


If I want to temporarily omit a file or folder, I have to enable omit results. Doesn't this then also omit the entries in omit results.
What I would like to do is temp omit a particular file or folder without all the other omits that are on my list coming in to play.
Please try creating a keyboard shortcut to temporarily omit results:
  • In Everything, from the Tools menu, click Options.
  • Click the Keyboard tab on the left.
  • To the right of Show commands containing, type in:
    omit
  • Select File | Temporarily Omit.
  • Click Add....
  • Press a new keyboard shortcut (eg: Backspace) and click OK.
  • Click OK.
Omit Results does not have to be enabled to use your temporarily omit keyboard shortcut.
I will consider an option to show the temporarily omit when Omit Results is disabled.

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:06 am

Thanks David, it looks like I'll have to go the keyboard route at the moment, until you can possibly create the option to omit individual entries without having to enable omit.

Would it also be possible to create a check/uncheck all boxes in omit?

When I do want to use omit in its entirety, rather than enabling it from the menu each time. would it be possible to create a filter entry for it, or would that not be feasible?

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:10 am

Would it also be possible to create a check/uncheck all boxes in omit?
Select all the items and press Space to toggle checked/unchecked.


When I do want to use omit in its entirety, rather than enabling it from the menu each time. would it be possible to create a filter entry for it, or would that not be feasible?
I will look into adding some search commands to manipulate omit results.
You would be able to call these commands from a bookmark.

Thanks for the suggestions.

harryray2
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Re: Omit Results

Post by harryray2 » Tue Apr 26, 2022 8:28 am

Great, thank you.

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:43 am

Added to ToFix:
4. Undo Ctrl+Z / Redo Ctrl+Y

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:38 am

void wrote:
Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:18 am
OMIT RESULTS is shown in the status bar when a result is potentially omitted.
Double click OMIT RESULTS to show all files.
Alt + Double click OMIT RESULTS to organize your result omissions.
Suggestion to make it more intuitive: to use hyperlinks.

23 objects omitted. Restore

Clicking on the number will open Organize dialog.
Restore/Clear/Remove/Unomit/X button/Show will show all files. (I think this "Restore" button should be appear only if the omission is for the current window. If the omission is for a long period, it should be restored from the Menu or Organize dialog)

When items are selected, the status bar shows:
23 objects selected
Perhaps the same terminology (objects) should be used.

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:32 am

I played around with (Temporary) omit/exclude a bit this morning. A 'placeholder' opinion that might change over time:

As I see it, Omit and Temporary Omit are fundamentally different, although hey look similar.

Temporary Omit is basically "Hide this result for the current search" and works on the displaying of entries in result list.
Maybe just call it that: "Hide Result" instead of "Temporary Omit". I will do so for the remainder of this post.

Using it on a folder, will reduce the number of shown results with 1. It doesn't hide the files in that folder (which I expected)

As soon as the search changes (adding an extra space in the search bar), the hidden results are shown again.
This makes it less useful (to put it mildly) in my opinion.
To make it a bit more useful, I would make "Hide Results" a context menu sub-menu, with entries like This Path, This Extension, Newer Files, Older Files, This Extension, This Entry, Reset. If that is technically feasible, of course.


Omit will change the search itself by adding exclusions to the search. Or more accurate: temporary removes selected entries from the index, so a search doesn't find them.
It could work as a (semi-) permanent Filter or as an alternative to permanent Exclusions.
In Everything 1.4 I use a "NoNonsense" default filter. That excludes folders I am not interested in on a daily basis. That would fit nicely in the new Omit functionality when time comes (I keep 1.5 mostly default at the moment for forum support).
I like the Omit function (although the word itself is a bit uncommon for me as a non-English person; curious what the translations will look like ..)


So, Omit works on the index/database and Temporary Omit works on the resultlist.
I think Temporary Omit should always be available in the context menu, even when Enable Omit Results is not activated in the Index menu. It is not related to the Index (at least: that is what it looks like from the outside)


After the dust settles a bit around this topic, the documentation still mentions Temporary Excludes.
(here too)

Stamimail
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:48 am

NotNull wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:32 am
I like the Omit function (although the word itself is a bit uncommon for me as a non-English person;
It comes to me from a Google translation.
Omit a line in the text - להשמיט שורה בטקסט
Leg of a chair dropped - רגל של כסא שנשמטה
In Everything 1.4 I use a "NoNonsense" default filter. That excludes folders I am not interested in on a daily basis. That would fit nicely in the new Omit functionality when time comes
For your case, maybe improvements should be applied to the filter dialog box, instead of a special feature "Enable Omit Results" under Index menu?

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:42 pm

One of the advantages of 'Omit' over using a filter is speed.
Upon file changes, it is decided if a file belongs in the 'Omit' category or the 'regular' category.
The 'omit' results are parked aside in a separate database table and have no longer influence on Search speed.
It might even make the search a little faster as there are less 'regular' files to be checked for matches.

Using a filter needs more CPU processing, as for each file a check must be made if it (a) matches the query and (b) matches the filter.
Personally I do not have many files, so I do not notice any performance issues. But when the number of files grows, there is more reasn to use 'Omit' instead of a filter.


Another advantage comes when filters need to be combined.
The NoNonsense filter excludes many folders. When I want to search for osme music file, I enable the 'Audio' filter.
But that filter searches in all folders, so I have to add nn: (NoNonsense macro) to the query.
(most of the time I just type audio: in the search bar, so more of a general remark)

The 'Omit' functionality is global, which works better in these cases.

Stamimail wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:48 am
For your case, maybe improvements should be applied to the filter dialog box
The filter dialog box does all I ever needed of it; no improvements needed.

void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:44 am

Thank you for the feedback.

Everything 1.5.0.1311a makes some changes to omit results.

Temporarily omitting a folder result will now omit all subfolders and subfiles.

Temporarily omitted results will remain hidden (even if they change outside Everything) until your next search.
-Previously they could popup again in the results.

Fixed a crash when removing a result omission filter and changing the sort order in organize result omissions.

Fixed an issue with 'remove from omit results' being shown when right clicking a file that was not specifically omitted.



I will consider hyperlinks.
For now, hold down Alt and double click Omit Results to open the Organize Result Omissions window.


As I see it, Omit and Temporary Omit are fundamentally different, although hey look similar.
I am considering separating the two.
Omit Results: enabled from Index -> Enable Omit Results
Temporarily Omit: enabled from ini setting only.


Maybe just call it that: "Hide Result" instead of "Temporary Omit".
Users might get confused with changing the file attributes to hidden, or may misunderstand how long the result will be hidden.


As soon as the search changes (adding an extra space in the search bar), the hidden results are shown again.
I will consider making temporary omit only last for the active search window.


In Everything 1.4 I use a "NoNonsense" default filter.
Filters can still be used.
Omit Results is just a speedy alternative.
Omit Results is more-or-less for the users that wanted to exclude c:\windows;c:\program files;etc... but sometimes wanted to search these folders without a reindex.


So, Omit works on the index/database and Temporary Omit works on the resultlist.
Correct.


The NoNonsense filter excludes many folders. When I want to search for osme music file, I enable the 'Audio' filter.
Maybe a second active filter could be an option.

Thank you for the suggestions.

Stamimail
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Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:00 pm

NotNull wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:42 pm
One of the advantages of 'Omit' over using a filter is speed.
Upon file changes, it is decided if a file belongs in the 'Omit' category or the 'regular' category.
The 'omit' results are parked aside in a separate database table and have no longer influence on Search speed.
It might even make the search a little faster as there are less 'regular' files to be checked for matches.

Using a filter needs more CPU processing, as for each file a check must be made if it (a) matches the query and (b) matches the filter.
Personally I do not have many files, so I do not notice any performance issues. But when the number of files grows, there is more reasn to use 'Omit' instead of a filter.


Another advantage comes when filters need to be combined.
The NoNonsense filter excludes many folders. When I want to search for osme music file, I enable the 'Audio' filter.
But that filter searches in all folders, so I have to add nn: (NoNonsense macro) to the query.
(most of the time I just type audio: in the search bar, so more of a general remark)

The 'Omit' functionality is global, which works better in these cases.
void wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:44 am
In Everything 1.4 I use a "NoNonsense" default filter.
Filters can still be used.
Omit Results is just a speedy alternative.
Omit Results is more-or-less for the users that wanted to exclude c:\windows;c:\program files;etc... but sometimes wanted to search these folders without a reindex.


So, Omit works on the index/database and Temporary Omit works on the resultlist.
Correct.
Thank you for trying to explain.
Unfortunately, I still did not understand why the problem couldn't be solved by improving what exists, by improving:
Bookmarks
Filters
Home tab in Options
Adding commands in search bar like subindex: indexfilter: ...

Why was it necessary to add a special feature?
Using a filter needs more CPU processing, as for each file a check must be made if it (a) matches the query and (b) matches the filter.
I did not understand what makes Omit faster. If the Omit idea is to make (b) before (a), why couldn't it be solved by search bar commands or making things behind the scenes.

The only thing I see and think was missing, is the ability to create file lists interactively, manage file lists, and do manipulations and cool things with file lists.
So I thought it would be better to convert
Omit --> Add/Move to filelist
Organize Result Omissions... --> Organize file list...
But I'm probably wrong because of a lack of technical understanding of how things work.

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:58 pm

Stamimail wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:00 pm
I did not understand what makes Omit faster. If the Omit idea is to make (b) before (a), why couldn't it be solved by search bar commands or making things behind the scenes.
I do not have access to the source-code either (and wouldn't know what to do with it), but based on @void's remarks and behaviour I see, this seemed the most logical explanation.


Example:
Suppose you have 100 files in your Everything index. 40 of those you are only interested in once a month. All other days those files show up in your result-list as "clutter" with every search you do.

Option 1
You could permanently exclude those files (Indexes > Exclude) and once a month:
- remove those Exclusions,
- re-index the database,
- do your once a month query
- enable the exclusions again
- re- index the database.

Option 2
Create a filter that excludes all the "clutter" files.
Now Everything needs to work harder as it needs to check if a file matches the filter *and* check if a file matches the search query.
That takes more time.
(although there is no need to check if a file matches the search query if it doesn't already match the filter; just trying to keep it "simple")

Option 3
You can also 'Omit' those 40 files.
Now they are stored in a separate database. Everything sees only the 60 remaining files.
Searches are now faster (only 60 files to check instead of 100) and the results contain much less clutter.
The one day in the month you need those 40 files, just disable 'Omit' and Everything sees 100 files. No re-indexing needed.
The next day, enable 'Omit' again and Everything sees 60 files again
That is a win in my book.


The only thing I see and think was missing, is the ability to create file lists interactively, manage file lists, and do manipulations and cool things with file lists.
Menu:Tools > File List Editor
And start dragging files/folders from Everything, Explorer or whatever to the file list editor.
Save when done.

Stamimail
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:08 pm

NotNull wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:58 pm
(although there is no need to check if a file matches the search query if it doesn't already match the filter; just trying to keep it "simple")
This line needs in-depth study.

Option 4
You could permanently exclude those files (Indexes > Exclude) and once a month:
Select a Bookmark/Filter with a Search: include-file-list:"OmitFilelist.efu" (or other similar command that adding to the index)

The Exclude tab in Options needs improvement to support Exclude filelist. The filelist in your case will be 2 lines of folder type:
C:\Program Files
C:\Windows
(You can add later to this filelist)
instead of include-file-list: command, you can create more explicit commands like
include-file-list-online
include-file-list-offline

I don't know if in order to include subfolders and subfiles, it should be configured in filelist or in the search bar command.
include-file-list-online-subfiles
include-file-list-offline-subfiles
include-file-list-online-folder-as-file
include-file-list-offline-folder-as-file

The idea is that these commands override what is in the Excluded tab.
Menu:Tools > File List Editor
Looks pretty similar to "Organize Result Omissions" dialog to me.

NotNull
Posts: 3738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:28 pm

Stamimail wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:08 pm
Option 4
You could permanently exclude those files (Indexes > Exclude) and once a month:
Select a Bookmark/Filter with a Search: include-file-list:"OmitFilelist.efu" (or other similar command that adding to the index)
How?
Indexes > Exclude would also exclude the content of filelists.


Beside that:
Suppose I created a filelist of the content of c:\program files and then exclude this folder in Everything
Now I install ProgramX in Program Files. It will not show up in the filelist and creating an updated filelist can't be done from within Evertything as these files are not in the index. ProgramX will never show up anywhere.
Or remove ProgramY. Till the end of days it will be shown in the filelist.

Things get even more complicated if this was not just a folder, but all *.tmp files ..

Stamimail
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:44 am

NotNull wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:28 pm
How?
Indexes > Exclude would also exclude the content of filelists.
I have already written that the idea is to create a command, which when written explicitly in the search bar, it will override what is on Indexes > Exclude, and will add index to index. If you do not want to allow this from the search bar, think about a quick access to organize indexes in UI. (look at Index -> Add Volume to Index. you can also think about checkboxes)
I think eventually you will need the same commands, for indexes as for file lists. (add, unite duplicates, remove ...)
Beside that:
3 questions:
1. When are the "40 files" being updated/online, throughout the entire month, or once a month?
2. What about if you want to break the full index into 3 pieces of indexes? (NoNonsense, NoNonsense+Windows, NoNonsense+Windows+Program Files)?
3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?

Stamimail
Posts: 978
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:39 am

Stamimail wrote:
Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:08 pm
3. Omission of folders - 2 commands needs here. It should be clear to the user if he is only omitting the appearance of the folder without its descendants, or omitting the folder with its descendants.
void wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:44 am
Everything 1.5.0.1311a makes some changes to omit results.

Temporarily omitting a folder result will now omit all subfolders and subfiles.
I guess that in a case the task of the user is to deal with folders renaming (folder: in search bar for example), he will look for an Omit command that only omitting the appearance of a folder without its descendants.

NotNull
Posts: 3738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:33 am

Stamimail wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:44 am
. When are the "40 files" being updated/online, throughout the entire month, or once a month?
The first one:
NotNull wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:42 pm

Upon file changes, it is decided if a file belongs in the 'Omit' category or the 'regular' category.

Stamimail wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:44 am
2. What about if you want to break the full index into 3 pieces of indexes? (NoNonsense, NoNonsense+Windows, NoNonsense+Windows+Program Files)?
The Organize Result Omissions dialog will let you do so.


3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?
The File List Editor as a front-end to change the Omit folders?
Partly possible (patterns like *.tmp or regex:... would fail), but why?
That would over-complicate things even more in my opinion.



Stamimail wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:44 am
I have already written ...
And I did read that. I think that Exclude should do exactly thta: exclude. Not "exclude unless".
And that is apart from a lot of technical challenges that comes with such a "exclude unless" solution. Exclude causes items to be excluded from the database. Sorting with added non-database items (your filelists) will be an issue, for example.


But that is about all I have to say on this subject. You made a suggestion; I gave my opinion. Now it's time for a new subject :)

void
Developer
Posts: 9622
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:14 am

Thank you for the feedback Stamimail and NotNull,
Unfortunately, I still did not understand why the problem couldn't be solved by improving what exists, by improving:
Bookmarks
Filters
Improving the search performance of filters?
It is possible by keeping an index of matching files/folders for the active filter.
However, it will make switching filters slow.

Keeping an index of matching files/folders for each filter would not be practical.

Everything can currently only have one active filter.

With Omit Results, you can right click files and click Omit.
Something you can't do with bookmarks/filters.

Bookmarks and filters support a wide range of searches, search options and layout settings.


Why was it necessary to add a special feature?
Omit Results is designed for one thing, hiding unwanted results.
With the ability to sometimes search those unwanted results.


I did not understand what makes Omit faster. If the Omit idea is to make (b) before (a), why couldn't it be solved by search bar commands or making things behind the scenes.
Everything maintains a database of all the files/folders that match your omit result filters.
When you perform a search, Everything will first check if each file/folder is in the omit result database.
This lookup in the omit result database is instant.

I would like Everything to have a feature dedicated to hiding unwanted results.
This is a feature that has been required often.

I would like to avoid hiding this as a search command or as a Tools->Options->Home setting.


The only thing I see and think was missing, is the ability to create file lists interactively, manage file lists, and do manipulations and cool things with file lists.
Omit results can be accessed as a 'filelist' with the omitresults: search function.

Please make sure you disable omit results first.

You can disable Omit Results from the Index menu and use !omitresult:
This is essentially what enabling Omit Results does behind the scenes.


So I thought it would be better to convert
Omit --> Add/Move to filelist
I guess omit results could be treated the same as a filelist.
I'm not sure it would be necessary.
The result omission list can also contain filters, eg: *.lnk which makes it difficult to translate to a file list.



You can drag drop files/folders to the Result Omission List.


You could permanently exclude those files (Indexes > Exclude) and once a month:
Select a Bookmark/Filter with a Search: include-file-list:"OmitFilelist.efu" (or other similar command that adding to the index)
I feel this would be too inefficient to be practical.
It could be done without a rebuild.
I can't see how this would be a good user experience.


The Exclude tab in Options needs improvement to support Exclude filelist. The filelist in your case will be 2 lines of folder type:
I will consider file list support in the exclude list.
The exclude list should be simple, static and dumb.

You can commit your Omit Results to your Exclude list from Index -> Add Result Omissions to Index Exclude List.


1. When are the "40 files" being updated/online, throughout the entire month, or once a month?
The are always updated in the background.
Omit results simply hides these files from your result list.
Omitted results are still indexed.


2. What about if you want to break the full index into 3 pieces of indexes? (NoNonsense, NoNonsense+Windows, NoNonsense+Windows+Program Files)?
Omit Result Profiles would be ideal here.
I'm not sure how to handle this yet.


3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?
It's possible.
But why force the Result Omissions List to be a File List when it can be specifically built as a result omission list?
File lists are not really designed to handle filters (eg: regex/wildcards).


3. Omission of folders - 2 commands needs here. It should be clear to the user if he is only omitting the appearance of the folder without its descendants, or omitting the folder with its descendants.
It makes sense to omit descendants when using Omit.
I can see it being useful for temporarily omit to hide only the selected folder (not the descendants)
For now, Temporarily Omit will give the same behavior as Omit.




My current thoughts.

I didn't like the word Temporary in Temporary Exclude.
I like the wording Omit which is used by Google and other search engines when results are "omitted".
"Omit" is not as harsh as "exclude".

Omit Results is designed for one thing, hiding unwanted results.
With the ability to sometimes search those unwanted results.

froggie
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by froggie » Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:44 pm

I don't understand the desire for 'Temporary Omit'.
Why would a user want to temporarily hide a result?
-If they are performing an action on results, can't they just exclude the files/folder from their selection?
One use case of "Temporary Omit" for me is removing outliers from a result before acting on it. When I move on to my next search, the omits are cleared. If I had added them to "Omit Results" I would have to clear them individually or clear all of "Omit Results" and lose all of my other omits. Of course I could always craft a better search to eliminate the outliers, but "Temporary Omit" is much faster to do.

Having an "Omit Results A" and an "Omit Results B" or a way to add to a named omit results group might provide similar function.

NotNull
Posts: 3738
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 9:22 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Sat Apr 30, 2022 4:04 pm

You can have the same effect by selecting all results ('CTRL + A') and Control-Click on the entries you want to exclude.
Now you can act upon the remaining selected entries.
(with the added benefit that you can check if what you excluded is correct)

That is what I think @void wanted to say.

froggie
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:43 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by froggie » Sat Apr 30, 2022 8:25 pm

Indeed. And that is what I have done in the past and will continue to do when appropriate.

But it is not as useful as Omits - it is fragile - especially when multiple screens are involved (one errant click and you get to start over), it does not work well to visually compare two list of files and it does not let you re-sort the results.

Stamimail
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Sun May 01, 2022 10:00 pm

Something here is not clear to me.
NotNull wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:58 pm
Suppose you have 100 files in your Everything index. 40 of those you are only interested in once a month. All other days those files show up in your result-list as "clutter" with every search you do.
I thought we had 100 files in "Everything-1.5a.db", and since 40 files are not used all month, it seems logical to me that in order to save computer memory, then you need to take out the 40 files from "Everything-1.5a.db", and you need to return them once a month to "Everything-1.5a.db". But
void wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:14 am
1. When are the "40 files" being updated/online, throughout the entire month, or once a month?
The are always updated in the background.
Omit results simply hides these files from your result list.
Omitted results are still indexed.
I understand that all of the 100 files are in 1 database ("Everything-1.5a.db") all the time.
It sounds to me "Omit results" works like a filter.
So what we're been looking for all along is actually a hierarchy of filters?

But
NotNull wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:58 pm
Option 2
Create a filter that excludes all the "clutter" files.
Now Everything needs to work harder as it needs to check if a file matches the filter *and* check if a file matches the search query.
That takes more time.
(although there is no need to check if a file matches the search query if it doesn't already match the filter; just trying to keep it "simple")

Option 3
You can also 'Omit' those 40 files.
Now they are stored in a separate database. Everything sees only the 60 remaining files.
Searches are now faster (only 60 files to check instead of 100) and the results contain much less clutter.
The one day in the month you need those 40 files, just disable 'Omit' and Everything sees 100 files. No re-indexing needed.
The next day, enable 'Omit' again and Everything sees 60 files again
That is a win in my book.
Option 2 sounds like a filter. Option 3 sounds like I thought at first, that we are taking out the 40 files from "Everything-1.5a.db", and "Now they are stored in a separate database. Everything sees only the 60 remaining files." - That means there are 2 databases ("Everything-1.5a.db" and "Omit results.db/.csv") :?

Stamimail
Posts: 978
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Thu May 12, 2022 10:47 am

void wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:14 am
3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?
It's possible.
But why force the Result Omissions List to be a File List when it can be specifically built as a result omission list?
File lists are not really designed to handle filters (eg: regex/wildcards).
The benefits are:
1. Improving software learning curve. The user does not need to learn another dialog box. It's already familiar to him.
2. I guess a smaller software size.
3. Translation maintenance - less to translate (OK, less important consideration)

Another direction of thinking is to unite "Exclude tab" and "Omit Results". This may help the user if all the settings he needs to mess with are in one place.

Coldblackice
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Re: Omit Results

Post by Coldblackice » Mon May 16, 2022 7:52 am

Stamimail wrote:
Thu May 12, 2022 10:47 am
void wrote:
Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:14 am
3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?
It's possible.
But why force the Result Omissions List to be a File List when it can be specifically built as a result omission list?
File lists are not really designed to handle filters (eg: regex/wildcards).
The benefits are:
1. Improving software learning curve. The user does not need to learn another dialog box. It's already familiar to him.
2. I guess a smaller software size.
3. Translation maintenance - less to translate (OK, less important consideration)

Another direction of thinking is to unite "Exclude tab" and "Omit Results". This may help the user if all the settings he needs to mess with are in one place.
I agree with void on not merging file lists with result omissions. But I agree with Stamimail that there's some redundancy overlap with separate "Excludes" and "Omits" functions (if I'm understanding what you're saying) and it may be beneficial merging their functionalities.

Or, I'm just lacking awareness of their separate use cases. Anyone mind elaborating on when you would use one vs. when you'd use the other?

Personally, I've been using it as a quicker way of excluding files/folders rather than having to jump into Options->Excludes, for example, using it cut out growing troves of cache files/folders that clutter up my blank-search search results that are sorted by date-modified, which I use frequently as a quickie poor man's "Process Monitor" for watching where a program or installer will write or modify files somewhere. I also sometimes only want to exclude something temporarily, such as program shortcuts (.LNK's).

All that said, I'm loving the omits functionality, and especially not only having it accessible via results context-menus, but even being able to handle multi-selections! It's like Christmas all over again :D The "Remove Recently Added Omissions" menu is also useful, along with wildcard filtering + being able to see and organize omissions.

NotNull
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Re: Omit Results

Post by NotNull » Mon May 16, 2022 9:26 am

Coldblackice wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 7:52 am
there's some redundancy overlap with separate "Excludes" and "Omits" functions (if I'm understanding what you're saying) and it may be beneficial merging their functionalities.
There are similarities, which would make one think that the entries could be combined, with an Exclude/Omit radiobutton pair for each entry.
But the differences will make it confusing when combining the two. Does the Include only files refer to omitting- or excluding results? What can be imported?


Not sure, but I expect most people to configure the "Exclude" dialogs once when doing first time setup and never look at it again (my Exclude settings haven't changed in years).
From time to time someone on these forums would toggle some filetype like .lnk or some folder on/off under "Exclude", but now there is "Omit" for that.

"Omit" feels like a more dynamic activity. Probably because it is integrated in the GUI, instead of being 'tucked away' behind "Options".
And that is another difference between the two: static vs. dynamic entries. I would like them to stay apart.

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void
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Re: Omit Results

Post by void » Wed May 18, 2022 8:12 am

Thank you for your feedback.
You can have the same effect by selecting all results ('CTRL + A') and Control-Click on the entries you want to exclude.
Now you can act upon the remaining selected entries.
(with the added benefit that you can check if what you excluded is correct)
Yes, this is what I was trying to say.
Temporarily omit now has the benefit of hiding an entire folder and subfolders.
Something that would be tedious with Ctrl + Select toggling.


I thought we had 100 files in "Everything-1.5a.db", and since 40 files are not used all month, it seems logical to me that in order to save computer memory, then you need to take out the 40 files from "Everything-1.5a.db", and you need to return them once a month to "Everything-1.5a.db". But
Tools -> Options -> Exclude would completely remove these files from your index.
Saving RAM usage and processing time to monitor changes.

However, if you want to re-include these files you would need to perform a complete reindex.
This reindex is what I am trying to avoid with "Omit Results".


I understand that all of the 100 files are in 1 database ("Everything-1.5a.db") all the time.
It sounds to me "Omit results" works like a filter.
So what we're been looking for all along is actually a hierarchy of filters?
I would say a hierarchy of "exclude filters".
"exclude filters" designed to omit files/folders.


Option 2 sounds like a filter. Option 3 sounds like I thought at first, that we are taking out the 40 files from "Everything-1.5a.db", and "Now they are stored in a separate database. Everything sees only the 60 remaining files." - That means there are 2 databases ("Everything-1.5a.db" and "Omit results.db/.csv") :?
Currently, the omitted files/folders are also stored in the "Everything-1.5a.db" and in the "omissions database".

Omitted files/folders in the "Everything-1.5a.db" will update normally, like any other file.

When you perform your search:
Everything will search for files/folders in the "Everything-1.5a.db". (only one database for performance reasons)
For each file/folder in the "Everything-1.5a.db", Everything will check if the file/folder is also in the omissions database.
If a file/folder is in the "omissions database" it is skipped.


3. Don't you think you can unite "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" into one?
It's possible.
But why force the Result Omissions List to be a File List when it can be specifically built as a result omission list?
File lists are not really designed to handle filters (eg: regex/wildcards).
The benefits are:
1. Improving software learning curve. The user does not need to learn another dialog box. It's already familiar to him.
2. I guess a smaller software size.
3. Translation maintenance - less to translate (OK, less important consideration)
To me, the "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" serve different purposes.
One is for a list of files, the other for a list of filters.


Another direction of thinking is to unite "Exclude tab" and "Omit Results". This may help the user if all the settings he needs to mess with are in one place.
"Exclude tab" and "Omit Results" are similar.
I will consider merging these into a common/shared dialog.


I agree with void on not merging file lists with result omissions. But I agree with Stamimail that there's some redundancy overlap with separate "Excludes" and "Omits" functions (if I'm understanding what you're saying) and it may be beneficial merging their functionalities.

Anyone mind elaborating on when you would use one vs. when you'd use the other?

"Exclude tab":
Completely exclude files/folders from your index.
This should be something that is done only once.
Changing your exclude list will require a reindex (slow)
Example: exclude C:\Windows as this is folder you never want in your search results and will keep your index slightly smaller.

"Omit Results":
Omit files/folders from your search results.
Omitted files/folders are still maintained in your index.
Changing your result omission list is fast. (no reindex required)
Example: exclude *.tmp or *.lnk as you don't want these in your normal results. With the option to occasionally search for .tmp files to delete.


There are similarities, which would make one think that the entries could be combined, with an Exclude/Omit radiobutton pair for each entry.
But the differences will make it confusing when combining the two.
Maybe a tab/page option.

Setting the exclude list should only be done once.
Setting the omission list can be changed frequently.


Does the Include only files refer to omitting- or excluding results?
What can be imported?
The results omission list and the index exclude list are already compatible.
You can copy your results omission list to your index exclude list from the Index menu.

The Include only files option could be used for both.
importing/exporting between the two would also be doable.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Stamimail
Posts: 978
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:05 pm

Re: Omit Results

Post by Stamimail » Wed May 25, 2022 4:06 pm

To me, the "File List Editor" and "Organize Result Omissions" serve different purposes.
One is for a list of files, the other for a list of filters.
This is where my mistake lies.
While you designed the dialog-box as filters oriented, I treated the dialog-box as a filelist oriented.
I still think there is another way/approach that might be better. I have couple ideas. I just need to find the time to post them.

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